Sunday, February 05, 2006

JFC Fuller's Army



But there's no danger
It's a professional career - Elvis Costello


Just a quick note about how they're the damnedest things, the things I didn't know.

Since I was fourteen or so I've had on my bookshelf a copy of JFC Fuller's Decisive Battles of the Western World. I knew he was a Major General, an early advocate of air power and mechanized assault, and a popular military historian. I'd known his philosophy of armoured warfare won more favour in Germany than in Britain, and that it became the blitzkrieg of commanders such as Heinz Guderian. And that was about it. What I didn't know was Fuller was both a fascist and an occultist, and no slouch at either.

Fuller served on the Policy Directorate of Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists, and was the only Englishman honoured with an invitation to Adolf Hitler's 50th birthday party in 1939. He was also a life-long Thelemite and an early advocate of Aleister Crowley. A .pdf of Fuller's early study of Crowley, The Star in the West, can be read online here, and also his Secret Wisdom of the Qabalah. (By the way, an online edition of his Foundation of the Science of War is hosted by the US Army Command and General Staff.) He was also an accomplished artist of occult subjects. That's his work, entitled "Knowledge and Conversation," next to his portrait in the above illustration. Kenneth Grant, in Outer Gateways, states that Fuller actually drew the sigils for Liber XII, "one of the most mysterious communications every received by Crowley" under alleged inspiration of the entity Aiwass.

Grant adds that Fuller's sigils are evocative of those reproduced by purported UFO contactee George Adamski, who insisted that they were "not to be interpreted mystically, but as glyphs of the nut-and-bolt variety." (In the 1950s Adamski asserted he had been contacted by "spacemen" from Venus, much as the occupants of the airship of 1897 claimed to have been out-of-state rather than off-world. Now, the claims of origin are most often distant stars. The lies, whether human or trans-human, keep abreast of science's plausible denial.)

Grant writes:

It is well known that Hitler had occult affiliations, and that one of his chief engineers was the celebrated Werner von Braun who later enabled the Americans to visit the moon. Is it not feasible that Hitler, in favouring Fuller as he did, was not only interested in Fuller's tank designs but also in his other, more recherche machines? The fact should not be overlooked that Hitler was in contact with entities as enigmatic and as alarming as Aiwass, and perhaps his interpretations of the messages he received from them were as coloured by his conditioning as were those of Crowley.

So, what's the point? Two points: if we mean to combat fascism, then we should learn to recognize it on our bookshelves and in the mindbombs dropped by respectable fascists. (Fuller's Generalship of Ulysses S Grant is still an influential study of the Civil War strategist, though one Amazon reviewer does chide his history of The Second World War for barely mentioning the extermination of millions of Jews, Gypsies and Slavs.) Also, we had also better brush up on our occultism. Because we can't really know the fascist character if we project upon it our familiar secular and liberal mental landscapes. That is going to take us to mad places, but that's the nature of comprehending the method.

64 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fuller was not alone in his view of events involving the Jews in the Second World War:

"I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement
is quite correct—not a single mention of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a
'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war.

This is astonishing. How can it be explained?

Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six
volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and
de Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this
mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including
the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find
no mention either of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews,
or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war."

— Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus,
University of Ulster, December 5, 2005

One awaits the deliberations of the Conference on this very subject which the Iranians are proposing.

6:41 a.m.  
Blogger Sounder said...

An interesting book-
The Spear of Destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft; The occult power behind the spear which pierced the side of christ...and how Hitler inverted the force in a bid to conquer the world.

It seems that occultists and fascists share similar personality traits in that both feel special and that they then have an obligation to impose their will on their less gifted brethren. However, by their own admission, the Word has been lost. The lost 'Word' resides behind the wall of ego that will not let them see that there is no autonomous I, --or some such thing.

7:48 a.m.  
Blogger Enoch Soames said...

Interesting post, but I'm compelled to point out that Ulysses S. Grant was not a Confederate general.

8:02 a.m.  
Blogger Enoch Soames said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:03 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

Ah nuts, of course he wasn't. Thanks, I'll edit.

9:10 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An amazing number of leading artists, writers, scientists, politicians, and prominent figures in general turn out to have been operating from some kind of occult belief system when you look at them closely.

These leanings are generally considered embarrassing and glossed over in public accounts of their lives -- or at the very least, treated as individual eccentricities.

I would love to see an occult history of the 20th century -- one that not only took these matters seriously and put them at the center of the story, but attempted to sort out the political implications of various occult affiliations. (Anybody wanna start a wiki?)

10:03 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm left curious - Why do you feel fascism to be that which requires combatting, rather than evil itself?

-Sepka the Space Weasel

10:42 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that occultists and fascists share similar personality traits... [sounder]

An amazing number of leading artists, writers, scientists, politicians, and prominent figures in general turn out to have been operating from some kind of occult belief system when you look at them closely. [starroute]

Why do you assume that there is a monolithic "occult" belief system?

Perhaps it is simply this: of the myriad mythologies that you lump into the "occult" category, many (most?) are more direct and faithful representations of the Truth than the pablum that passes for mainstream religious doctrine; therefore, those who follow these richer models of reality are consequently more powerful or successful at whatever it is they set out to do. In particular, fascists are interested in controlling the wills of others through military might, and so they take interest in whatever means, material or metaphysical, that allows them to do this.

11:02 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I recently watched Invincible by Werner Herzog starring Tim Roth. It's about a guy called Erik Jan Hanussen, who staged some occult theatrics in his Palace of the Occult in prewar Germany, and Zishe Breitbart, a Jewish strongman from a small village who goes to Berlin to perform for Hanussen. Hanussen turned out to be a fraud, at least in the movie. But it is supposedly based on a true story. Anyone familiar with this movie and how accurate it is?

11:06 a.m.  
Blogger Jeff Wells said...

I'm left curious - Why do you feel fascism to be that which requires combatting, rather than evil itself?

I phrased it as a rhetorical question - "if we mean to combat fascism" - because I was addressing those readers who've suggested that getting metaphysical risks losing the plot. If we consider only the politics of fascism we haven't learned the lessons of the 20th Century, and we'll be taught harder ones in the 21st.

12:43 p.m.  
Blogger cabdriver said...

Anonymous 11:06am, Hanussen is a simple Internet search.

hanussen+hitler+astrologer

1:27 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps it is simply this: of the myriad mythologies that you lump into the "occult" category, many (most?) are more direct and faithful representations of the Truth than the pablum that passes for mainstream religious doctrine;

No, sir, all of them are lies. Truth is one, error is many. And by sheer weight of numbers, error can smother Truth if allowed free reign.

Come back to Christ, Rome and Tradition, for your soul's good and your mind's sanity and peace.

www.sspx.org

2:46 p.m.  
Blogger Philippe said...

With reference to the observation by Professor Richard Lyn that the histories of the Second World War by the likes of Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, Charles De Gaulle and others, were silent about the genocide of the Jews.

Perhaps they were silent because they knew that millions of German Jews could have been saved if the United States, Britain, and other countries around the world had been prepared to take them in. Jews were even prevented from going to Palestine, since boats headed there with Jews aboard were apprehended on the high seas by the British, and its passengers arrested and put into camps.

So arguably the pioneers of all the countless “boat people” of the twentieth century were German and other European Jews escaping Hitler.

Thus the leading countries of the alliance against Hitler were complicit in the Holocaust, since millions of Jews wanted to escape the concentration camps but had nowhere to go.

This resistance to the immigration of large numbers of Jews reflected the pervasive and ingrained historical anti-Semitism of Europeans and Americans, an attitude probably shared by their leaders of the time, albeit unconsciously.

So when they saw Hitler, they saw themselves, and were disquieted by what they saw, for Hitler was their face looking back at them. So he had to be got rid of.

2:52 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

slomo asked, "Why do you assume that there is a monolithic "occult" belief system?"

I don't. That's why I spoke of "some kind of occult belief system" and then expressed a wish for a history that "attempted to sort out the political implications of various occult affiliations."

I didn't speak more explicitly because I don't know the politics of early-mid 20th century occultism well enough, especially on the left. I could mutter a little about Bucky Fuller or Upton Sinclair, but I'd really be talking through my hat. And, as the discussions of New Age-i-ness here have shown, even some people who pitch a liberal line can turn out to have a secret elitist agenda.

That's why I'd really love to see some clarity brought into the discussion.

3:07 p.m.  
Blogger cabdriver said...

"Viva Jesu", here's your tradition of Roman Catholic theocracy, at the zenith of it's power, for you.

As a Christian, it pains me to remind you of this history. But it has to be done.

3:42 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come back to Christ, Rome and Tradition, for your soul's good and your mind's sanity and peace.

I don't wish to start a flame-war, but suffice to say that it is quite easy to catalogue the evils perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church and in the name of Christ, up to and including complicity with fascists (and Nazis in particular), right through to our modern day American televangelists and their questionable political ties.

(I have no illusions about, for example, Tibetan Buddhism. But institutional Christianity is one of the major mental/spiritual traps set in America today, and because of the numbers of people at risk, far more dangerous than New Age in my opinion, not that the latter is innocuous.)

4:13 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't. That's why I spoke of "some kind of occult belief system" and then expressed a wish for a history that "attempted to sort out the political implications of various occult affiliations."

starroute, no criticism intended. Just an attempt to clarify for the sake of discussion.

BTW, your comment the other day about the margins between chaos and order (in analogy with phase transitions between states of matter) spawned a rather fruitful contemplation, bringing up questions that are still quite unresolved in my mind. Thanks!! :)

4:17 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anti-semitism in 'Christian' societies has always boggled me. My flavour of Christianity has always just taken it for granted that the Jews are Jesus' family. And even Apostle Paul, that great 'Jew-hater' says 'the Jews are the true olive tree, the nations are the one grafted into the family.' I've never understood how you could be an anti-semite without at a fundamental level, hating the idea of the Incarnation. You'd have to believe in a Christ who was some kind of disembodied spirit or formless Idea with no historical footprint at all and more importantly, no human love of any kind. Something more like an Ascended Master than a Messiah.

But it seems that's exactly the doctrine that managed to spread throughout the European church, and it just makes me feel bizarre.

4:37 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shorter Viva Jesu:

Turn off your brain, rest easy. We're happy to provide you with all the answers.

4:37 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IMO one indissoluble element of fascism is the myth of national or racial rebirth or renewal - "palingenesis".

Actually that's not my opinion, I got it from the scholar of fascism, Roger Griffin.

5:01 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Viva Jesu:

It's interesting, because as a Protestant I've generally assumed that the Roman superstructure of religious tradition built since the Early Church was bogus and verging on darkly occultic myself. Sola fide, sola scriptura, etc.

Nowadays I'm coming around to the idea that there *are* valid spiritual experiences and writings that are not evil in themselves, but may in fact have simply been visionaries writing honestly about what they experienced. I'm still not a fan of the heavy top-down centralism of Rome (wherever it's found - the American Evangelical/Pentecostal spectrum seems to be heading down that road as fast as it can, with George W Bush as a new Pope, so it's not a denominational issue) - but I'm coming to realise that there's a vast treasure of spiritual observations that the Protestant movement abandoned entirely .

What would your reaction be, coming from the Roman tradition, to a 'channelling' (spontaneously occurring, not forced and not using black arts of any kind) of an entity calling himself St Stephen the Martyr? Is that the sort of thing saints are expected to do? We don't have much truck with saints in my tradition, but I have in my hands a book transcribed from tape-recordings of sessions with just such a 'saint', thirty years ago. I've met the couple involved - they're both nice, sane people and appear to be practicing Christians. The content of Stephen's teachings appears to be quite conservative theologically in many ways, and focused almost entirely on Jesus. Literal virgin birth, spiritual resurrection. Literal second coming. When asked 'is the Christ within us?' his answer was 'actually it's more like the Christ we are within'. The soul survives the body but we should not despise the body because it is a wonderful work of God. There is no duality of absolute Good vs absolute Evil: there is only God, and us who he is forming as a painter would a painting ('but with intelligent paint'). Evil is more an absence of good than a force in itself. Evil spiritual entities exist, but they are not the equal of God in any sense. The only part I find strange is a casual acceptance of reincarnation, which I have never thought was Christian, but otoh, I'm not sure it's specifically *anti*-Christian.

Anyway, it's made me think: I've seen how even a Christian church can implode into a destructive cult very easily. Just having the name doesn't protect against evil, it's more about whether we choose to love and embrace outsiders or not. So I can quite see how the field of what we call 'occult' could have originated with valid spiritual revelations (such as Bohme et al), but then been perverted into cults by those attempting to use this knowledge for power-seeking. Stephen (as other Christian teachers) seems very insistent that there is no safe way to encounter the spiritual realm other than through *love* and through *receiving* what is given to us rather than attempting to wrestle gain to ourselves.

It makes me feel safer, somehow, thinking that it's not that there's this vast store of intrinsically evil, occult knowledge - but that there are a lot of people seeking evil use of what is possibly a neutral or even good medium but one that is fantastically delicate and sensitive to our motivations. As we seek, so we will find - if we seek power, we will find darkness, if we seek love, we will find light. Will our father give us a stone, if we seek bread?

5:14 p.m.  
Blogger John1975 said...

Great blog! I found it while searching for something about Bosnia.

I'm an avid reader of military history, especially WWII, and found your latest entry interesting and will do my own research on this subject just to learn more about it.

John

6:29 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here are a few links to articles by Roger Griffin. They're dry and academic, and on quite a few matters he takes a substantially different POV than what is current around here. But he puts forth quite a few interesting concepts about what constitutes fascism.

The palingenetic core of generic fascist ideology (pdf)

'I Am No Longer Human. I Am A Titan. A God!' The Fascist Quest To Regenerate Time

“Shattering crystals”: the role of “dream time” in extreme right-wing political violence (pdf)

From slime mould to rhizome: an introduction to the groupuscular right (pdf)

6:45 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

just wanted to say thanks for the post as usual, and theres no need to defend your position re: the occult and how it ties into all this: almost every other author out there who does puts it into some bunko religious framework. you are to date the only one who can make the connection, make it stick, and not fuck up your credibility with some antichrist NWO pablum.

so keep it coming, and take us as far down that rabbit hole as you feel.

8:50 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in response to Jeff:

Jeff said...

sepka the space weasal said...

I'm left curious - Why do you feel fascism to be that which requires combatting, rather than evil itself?

"I phrased it as a rhetorical question - "if we mean to combat fascism" - because I was addressing those readers who've suggested that getting metaphysical risks losing the plot. If we consider only the politics of fascism we haven't learned the lessons of the 20th Century, and we'll be taught harder ones in the 21st."

12:43 PM

i agree jeff. i didn't mean to suggest only the politics matter. their occult beliefs do matter, it informs their every motive, idea and action. as any belief stucture does. all i'm saying is that it doesn't mean they are controlled by some dark energy reality transcending being. the mind is a powerful thing when its lead to believe certain things, be it truth or immense falsehoods.

9:06 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i reread the last part of the article. all true. especially the understanding of occultism, such a broad category in itself. its also how things have been able to keep on going as they have. exploitation of ignorance = power.

thusly knowledge is a good counter power.

9:13 p.m.  
Blogger Nicco Knight said...

You say, "If we mean to combat fascism...we better brush up on occultism"

Okay. So Hitler was a fascist, and an occultist. And I presume that you see fascism creeping up the front steps. So where is the occultism in today's putative would-be Benitos?

10:04 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sinister Forces by Peter Levenda

10:50 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nicco knight said: Okay. So Hitler was a fascist, and an occultist. And I presume that you see fascism creeping up the front steps. So where is the occultism in today's putative would-be Benitos?

Bohemian Grove maybe?

http://www.infowars.com/bg_section.html
http://www.geocities.com/bohemian_grove_dirt/

11:17 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you’re thinking of reading Peter Levenda’s book Sinister Forces, don’t bother. I can save you $29.95 plus shipping and handling.

On page 109 he writes: “That cults do exist is also known. But there is no evidence that cultists in the United States have any political power or influence...”

Have a bit of free disinformation with your tea and cakes. Just turn on the telly. It’s cheaper.

11:55 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very interesting post.

I clicked on some of your embedded links and have been reading this JFC Fuller guy’s “Secret Wisdom of the Qabalah.” It is fascinating book, only 92 pages, and very understandable.

Yet I am perplexed. Throughout the work, Fuller writes in a tone of admiration, and from the consisten position as a faithful participant in the Qabalistic plan for man’s future. If he was a Nazi, and I am not saying that he was not - seeing that you wrote he was invited to Hitler's 50th birthday party, then how does one understand the following passage which are his own words (page 73):

In short, the Chosen People are the light of the world, a light which at present is mixed with darkness (the Gentiles or children of Esau). This darkness will vanish little by little; first Israel will “look forth as the dawn”, next she will “become fair as the moon”, then “as clear as the sun”, and lastly “terrible as an army with banners”. Such is the reformulation of YHVH. When this is
accomplished, not a Gentile will be left to pollute the earth; for Israel will have become its Messianic Shin which will untie the tongue of God, and on the utterance of His name will the entire universe vanish into absolute light. Such is the inner meaning of illuminism to the Qabalist.

Over to you, Jeff.

12:09 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Found the war dangerous. Father in death camp.
How the hell did he get out?
How the hell did we get in, and back to his/our life?
Family mystery.
Blind luck.
Shit- from -geese department.
Wrote about it. Black Icon.
People said I was Jerzy Kosinki clone. Jerzy was CIA. Killed himself in a Winn Dixie shopping bag.
WTF
Wrote book on it. The Black Icon.
Our of print, but both Canucks and Your-alls loved it.
Something, I guess.
Can't write shit, but man, have I got material.

12:15 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nicco knight said --

Okay. So Hitler was a fascist, and an occultist. And I presume that you see fascism creeping up the front steps. So where is the occultism in today's putative would-be Benitos?

One possibility is that it's passing as some of the more secretive forms of Christianity. I'm thinking in particular of the Fellowship Foundation. See, for example, Wayne Madsen on the group -- its Nazi roots and continuing connections to right-wing politics.

Being as it's Madsen, the piece sprawls all over the place, and some of it clearly has to be taken with a grain of salt. But the general picture strikes me as sound. The secretive and cult-like nature of the group is undeniable. And the indications of its influence within the military (Madsen names General Boykin as a member) are thought-provoking.

Remember -- Americans in general aren't particularly intellectual, so any widespread fascistic occult movement can't be expected to have an elaborate theosophical-type structure. The Foundation Fellowship is just about what you'd expect to find filling the niche.

For more, see this article from the LA Times, this one from Harper's, or this from the Portland Phoenix.

It may also be significant that the names of congressional members of the Fellowship Foundation regularly come up in connection with Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff -- including Charles Grassley, John Ensign, James Inhofe, Conrad Burns, Jim DeMint, and Todd Tiahrt. (I think there's a LaRouche piece out there on DeLay which mentions some of this, and which is either totally whacked or right on. With LaRouche, one never knows.)

10:26 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try thinking straight: if Churchill, de Gaulle, Eisenhower, the Vatican and the International Red Cross (who inspected the Nazi camps) didn't believe in the murder of those millions of Jews then perhaps it suggests it never happened. These people were all in an excellent position to know, surely? Why should any of them, let alone all, seek to cover up a Nazi crime? Three major political memoirs all deliberately written to not mention what most sheeple now think is the best known event of the Second World War does not make sense - unless the authors did not believe the Jewish nightmare fantasies. And if those guys didn't, try thinking about why you do, who wants you to think that way and why.

10:33 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try thinking straight: Churchill, de Gaulle, Eisenhower, the Vatican and the International Red Cross (who inspected the Nazi camps, including Auschwitz) all decline to confirm the Jewish nightmare fantasies. Three major political memoirs each deliberately written to ignore what most sheeple think is the best-known "fact" about the Second World War doesn't make any sense - unless it isn't a fact at all. If these guys didn't believe in the exterminations, why do you? And who wants you to believe in them, and why?

10:41 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Still waiting for an answer to this very pertinent quesiton...
Very interesting post.

I clicked on some of your embedded links and have been reading this JFC Fuller guy’s “Secret Wisdom of the Qabalah.” It is a fascinating book, only 92 pages, and very understandable. He is quite clearly a devoted scholar of Qabalah, covering Hebrew linquistics, metaphysics, numerology, teleology and cosmogony.

Yet I am perplexed. Throughout the work, Fuller writes in a tone of sincere admiration, and from the consistent position as a faithful participant in the Qabalistic plan for man’s future. If he was a Nazi, and I am not saying that he was not - seeing that you wrote he was invited to Hitler's 50th birthday party, and refer to him as a major European fascist multiple times, then how does one understand the following passage which are his own words (page 73):

"In short, the Chosen People are the light of the world, a light which at present is mixed with darkness (the Gentiles or children of Esau). This darkness will vanish little by little; first Israel will “look forth as the dawn”, next she will “become fair as the moon”, then “as clear as the sun”, and lastly “terrible as an army with banners”. Such is the reformulation of YHVH. When this is
accomplished, not a Gentile will be left to pollute the earth; for Israel will have become its Messianic Shin which will untie the tongue of God, and on the utterance of His name will the entire universe vanish into absolute light. Such is the inner meaning of illuminism to the Qabalist."

Over to you, Jeff.

12:36 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:41, your comments have made me think and made me do research.

The most legendary of the camps, of course is Auschwitz. I was taught in school that up to 2,000,00 Jews were killed there. But, as I look at things, the numbers just don't add up.

I always say, well, look at the math...

From a Wikipedia entry on the Nazi extermination and labor camps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps)we see that most of these camps ran for only a few years of the war. Auschwitz has a listing of 1 to 1.5 million deaths. Well, taken what I learned from our wonderful public education system and giving Wiki a little credence too, let's just say the number killed at that camp was 1.5 million over 5 years. That comes down to almost 1,000 people being exterminated per DAY nonstop for 5 years. This just doesn't make intuitive sense to me. And the numbers from the other camps are not that extensive.

So, what's it mean? Where did that number of 6 million come from anyway? Do we dare call it a "meme"?

2:52 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know, you Holocaust Deniers are guilty of heresy.

You should be locked up.

3:15 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Crowley, at least on one occassion, considered Fuller to have imparted to him messages from "the secret chiefs." So while Crowley definitely had an influence on Fuller, it's worth pointing out the influence went the other direction as well.

A book I've been meaning to check out but haven't read is John Symond's The Medusa's Head or Conversations between Crowley and Hitler. It isn't clear if the book is a novel or purports to be historical. But what it does do is outline the similarities between the philosophies of Crowley and Hitler.

My own personal thought is that, like all aristocrats of the time, Crowley was an opportunist. He used the intelligence apparatus to make connections on both sides of the war, thus ensuring when the world went a certain way, he'd still have a safe place at the table.

Never trust a double agent.

3:20 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a section from The Medusa's Head:

http://www.illuminati-news.com/crowley_hitler.htm

3:21 p.m.  
Blogger A Fake Doctor said...

I cannot sit passively when people question the Shoah and nobody refutes his line of revisionist thought. First, those who would challenge accepted history, the popular and widely held, officially endorsed and widely covered belief system, bear primary responsibility for disproving the dominant line of thought with their own argument. I have said before and say again that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. How can one "prove" or "disprove" history? Often those who would challenge the dominant strain of thought have personal and irrational bases.

I saw Raul Hilberg speak when I was in school. He speaks German, among other languages and told us he personally documented the meticulous German records coordinating the train transports to the concentration camps. He is an old man, one of the remains of a dying generation, those who saw the deaths of civilians first-hand, many of which have been documented in writing and in video.

To imply that what all older Jews have told the younger generations were lies is simply anti-Jewish. To say that first-hand witnesses and survivors lied is ridiculous, and can only be supported with supposition and presumption. Nearly all Jewish families with roots in Europe in the early 20th century lost somebody in their family, or were dislocated as a result including me. Some of my relatives are co-nationals with Mr. Wells because of US immigration policies. We are not fools for believing what we were told by relatives and teachers, of first-hand witnesses and those like Hilberg who did the research, and to say we are is again anti-Jewish, indicative of prejudice. I am suspicious that such people have an agenda.

Of course, there was no census of poor, rural, agricultural Jewish communities across Europe, so the numbers of 6 million are estimates, but informed and educated estimates should not be subject to radical downward revisions by those with demonstrated and proven anti-Jewish sentiments. Who cares whether it was exactly six million or thereabouts? I cannot even conceptualize such large numbers.

I must explain also that I am not regarded as Jewish by those in control of the Israeli government, nor am I a "Zionist." People reveal ignorance when they speak of "The Jews" or "Jews" without distinguishing between the orthodox and ultra-orthodox who hold undue power in Israel and view the conservatives, reforms, and reconstructionists as non-Jewish. The Israelis do the world a disservice when they try to couch anti-Zionism as "anti-Semitism." Liberal American Jews are not "Jewish" under official Israeli religious guidelines. They are a theocracy, elected by the people, and I will never understand that. But to Jew haters, we are of course all "Jews," whether liberal, "half-Jews," or even converts if the classifier happens to be a Nazi sympathizer (or a white supremicist).

To compare my religious beliefs and practice to those of the orthodox or ultras is like comparing American Protestantism to Greek Orthodox practice, or a Sunni Muslim with a Shiite. Sunniis and Shiites do not regard one another as Muslims in many places--Iraq, for example. And As I said, in most contexts and discussions, grouping all Jewish religious groups all together is inappropriate and indicates ignorance of the nature of modern Judaism. It may indicate the outdated "racialist" view and the frequent accompanying negative bias. This racial element does seem to be part of some occult belief systems. That is ironic, since the ultra-orthodox Hasidics are the ones who created and have explored the topic of Qabalah, so heavily cited by occultists.

For the benefit of that last poster, looking at an online "wiki" hardly counts as research with numbers reliable enough to "add up" to get the total number of victims, especially since all numbers are estimates. And I fail to see how what "intuitively" does not add up is any sort of counter-argument at all.

I guess I may as well also mention that it is a very emotional topic to talk about "revisionism" and my own struggles with the religious institution I sort of belong within.

3:25 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Josh,

If you keep going, you find the whole thing is a hologram: there is no documentary or physical evidence of the killing or the killed. Or, if you think about it like you did, it is exposed as utterly fantastic. Think of a single California gas chamber death, or a modern cremation, for comparison. When the Nazis pulled out of Auschwitz most of the prisoners chose to go with them instead of waiting for the Russians. Elie Wiesel went with the Nazi guards and he never mentioned gas chambers in his auotobiography after the war.

3:27 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ObieJargon,

We've all heard that old record before, over and over ad nauseam. Nobody disputes the deportations, it's what happened at the other end that is not clear. No evidence except imaginative claimed "eyewitness" accounts, mostly from long after the war and with compensation payable. "There's no business like Shoah business". Try this account of Jews in wartime Europe from the Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1956 by a Jewish scholar, Jacob Marcus:

"In order to effect a solution of the Jewish problem in line with their theories, the Nazis carried out a series of expulsions and deportations of Jews, mostly of original east European stock, from nearly all European states.

Men frequently separated from their wives, and others from children, were sent by the thousands to Poland and western Russia. There they were put into concentration camps, or huge reservations, or sent into the swamps, or out on the roads, into labour gangs. Large numbers perished under the inhuman conditions which they labored. While every other large Jewish center was being embroiled in war, American Jewry was gradually assuming a position of leadership in world Jewry." [found in the 1947, 52 and 56 editions]

Jewish historians like Deborah Lipstadt are back-pedalling and making downward revisions all the time, by the way. That's your problem with evidence and history: it's about proving, not believing.

3:48 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I stand by my questions and my "do the math" conclusions. I find it logistically very difficult to kill 1,000 people a day every day for 5 years. Intuitively, it doesn't make sense that these camps killed those many people.

And what of Eisenhower, et al not making mention of it?

Where did the 6,000,000 number come from? Out of thin air?

I'm not a revisionist, just someone with questions.

Please don't anyone label me anti-semitic because you don't know my background.

As far as that tongue-in-cheek "heresy" comment goes, well, you can round me up and detain me. Put me in one of those FEMA camps while you are at it. They were built by Halliburton, you know, and you can be sure they used the cheapest schlockiest materials to underprice their competitors to get the contract. Escaping one of those camps should be easy!

5:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about answering the questions Josh asked? We've all heard your record before.

As you are so knowlegeable, try a few more: Are you aware of any fraudulent "death camp" or "Holocaust" memoirs by people who claimed to be survivors? Jerzy Kosinski is a start.Can you list the other methods of mass exterminations the Nazis were accused of using during the War by "survivors" and "eyewitnesses"?
Electricity, steam, industrial hammer-blows perhaps? How many of those Nazi "confession" testimonies were the products of torture? How many were copping a plea?

Any answers about the nature of the evidence you're probably not so confident about? One suspects not. These questions are heresy.

6:38 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, on October 9, 1981, took judicial notice as follows:"

Yes, but an American judge is simply an American lawyer in a silly costume. It has been scientifically proven that the American lawyer is the lowest form of life ever to appear on planet earth.

Kris Milligan is an occult obsessed simpleton of CIA drugs noteriety.

David Irving is a flawed genius but he's smarter than any American who has ever lived with the possible exception of Bobby Dylan, Paul Simon and a couple of others of that ilk.

Yes, Dylan and Simon are Jews.

6:59 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Josh,

Here are 6 million for you. Same place, same people only 25 years earlier. Raised a lot of money from generous Americans.

"From across the sea, six million men and women call to us for help ... six million human beings. ... Six million men and women are dying ... in the threatened holocaust of human life ... six million famished men and women. Six million men and women are dying" -- Martin H. Glynn, Governor of New York, 10/31/1919

7:16 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gees, who would have thought a simple question revolving around math would generate all this...

7:16 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good lord, holocaust denial? I suppose if you talk honestly about conspiracy theory you attract all types, but sheesh. And do we have to spam the blog comments with such a long-winded refutation?

I wanted to say: have you seen this blog? Seems in a very similar ballpark: psychopathology and politics.

http://ponerology.blogspot.com

8:07 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nate,

You think it is heresy to have questions? What if it's a put-on, like 9/11 or JFK? I agree with you about the windbaggery, though they are not refutations.

Roads End,

Irving is the perfect straw man for you holocaust believers. I do not rely on him.

Now try to answer the questions as best you can. Don't forget to have a good look at your revisionism primer first.

8:30 p.m.  
Blogger foist lastus said...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/670245.html

It is possible that within a short time a court in the United States will prohibit the publication of the account before us. In the meantime, Haaretz has obtained the testimony given last month by William Gowen, a former intelligence officer in the United States Army, at a federal court in San Francisco. The testimony contains historical and political explosives. It links Giovanni Battista Montini, who later became Pope Paul VI, to the theft of property of Jewish, Serb, Russian, Ukrainian and Roma victims during World War II in Yugoslavia. Many studies and stories have already been written about the thundering silence of Pope Pius XII, who reigned in the Vatican during World War II.

8:40 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Milligan

Irving was recognised as the greatest authority on the Third Rich. He is now persona non grata in Britain, you can't buy his books there unlike the US.

The best one can say about that hit piece is that the author is low life.

Irving took on the Pernguin/Lipstadt/Speilberg legal team along with their paid for witnesses and wiped the floor with them. The opinion of the presiding lawyer is of little consequence.

Irving is fabulously wealthy and that's why they villify him so much, he can't be bought or made homeless.

Why do you think it's a very serious crime to question the holocaust in germany - is it because germans are fundamentally evil or is it because too many of them know the truth.

What would Americans say if it was illegal to deny that Arabs were solely responsible for 9/11 ?

8:46 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Irving is a racist meglomaniac product of the Englsh public school system, the very type that took on world and created the British Empire.

I still think he's right about the gas chambers - Simon Weisenthal said in 1975 "there were no gas chambers in Germany", it sems Mr Milligan thinks there were..

Irving IS the perfect straw man because every TV watching fuckwit says he is a holocaust denier which is completely untrue. He documents many deliberate nazi atrocities including mass murder against the Jews.


The perpetual linking of spiritual groups to fascism is simple minded trash by the way. The United States is now awash with New Age Oprahism.

9:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope you guys don't think I'm a "Holocoust Denier" because all I did was look at numbers critically. I have no "agenda" or belief system I want to prove or shove down someone's throat. The reactions to my questions have sparked something I didn't expect. I assure you my "do the math" approach was totally innocent. I have learned from all of this, though.

Now I have another question: why the fervor?

The Lady doth protest too much???

9:44 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I do not think that you know of what you speak ..."

Yes I do, unlike you I read the book written by the Lipstadt team. It was paper thin nonsense and turned me into a revisionist, David Irving could never have managed that.

Aren't you one of these 9/11 deniers by the way, muslim fanatic apologist that you are. Don't you publish that traitor Dan Hopsicker, DUDE ?

Call yourself a patriotic American ? Didn't I notice you playing up the conspiracy theories about Jews being arested after 9/11 ? The Israeli government says your an anti-semite, quite rightly too.

How many gas chambers were there in Germany Mr Milligan ?

New York Times, London Times indeed !!!

9:54 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 12:09 said:


I clicked on some of your embedded links and have been reading this JFC Fuller guy’s “Secret Wisdom of the Qabalah.” It is fascinating book, only 92 pages, and very understandable.

Yet I am perplexed. Throughout the work, Fuller writes in a tone of admiration, and from the consisten position as a faithful participant in the Qabalistic plan for man’s future. If he was a Nazi, and I am not saying that he was not - seeing that you wrote he was invited to Hitler's 50th birthday party, then how does one understand the following passage which are his own words (page 73):


No need to be perplexed. Nazis believed themselves to be the TRUE Jews, and the "Jews" to be imposters. Jewish identity seems to be of huge importance to Fascists, and not only them: Royal houses of Europe apparently also consider it of extreme importance - all that Holy Grail stuff. It's all very strange how Jewishness is yet AGAIN a big issue to some people.

12:33 a.m.  
Blogger cabdriver said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:37 a.m.  
Blogger cabdriver said...

Josh, you said:

"I hope you guys don't think I'm a "Holocoust Denier" because all I did was look at numbers critically."

Actually, Josh, the place to try "looking at the numbers critically" is in the library stacks; or, as a preliminary substitute, by throwing some appropriate terms into a search engine.

The erroneous figure of 4,000,000 Jews dead in Auschwitz is widely acknowledged as a Soviet fabrication. Perhaps you don't realize that Auschwitz is located in Poland, which was part of the Eastern Bloc at the time that the plaque commemorating 4,000,000 dead was put in place. That plaque was later replaced when its accuracy wwas challenged. The 4,000,000 number of Jewsh dead at Auschwitz was not accepted by Raul Hilberg, the most well-known and highly respected scholar on the Nazi genocide, who provided his personal estimate of around 1 million.

For what it's worth, Hilberg's estimate of the total number of Jews killed is lower than 6 million. It's...5.1 million. That doesn't exactly amount to an absolution of the Nazis, in my opinion. Some historians offer varying figures, some more, some less. Just about every researcher has concluded that several million Jews died on account of being singled out and marked for death by the Nazi regime.

Hilberg attributes about half of that total to the deportation and concentration camps, and about half to the massacres that occurred in the course of the Nazi push eastward into Russia. In many of the conquered territories, the Nazis relied on the paramilitaries of the Waffen SS- comprised of non-German sympathizers- to round up the local Jewish populations and massacre them. That accounts for the murdered Jews who did not die in the deportations and camps. These extermination programs were often quite ruthless. The Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia were nearly completely "ethnically cleansed" of their Jewish populations by death squads of local paramilitaries organized by the Nazis, for instance.

Many of the Jews I've met or communicated with have told me of losing relatives in the concentration camps, and were children or close relatives of survivors. But in the case of the massacre victims in places like Latvia or Croatia, there were no surviving relatives. The pattern in the early days of the Eastern Front campaign was to get sympathetic nationals to round up all the Jews in the local shetl and gun them down, often after they had been forced to dig pits as mass graves. This process was so gory and hideous that it was traumatic to many of the SS soldiers, so the Nazi high command turned to deportations to concentration camps. Argue over the provability of the nuts and bolts of the methods and causes of death all you want, but it appears plain enough to me that all of those railroad trips were intended as one-way tickets.

"I have no "agenda" or belief system I want to prove or shove down someone's throat."

I can only speak for myself...I didn't say that you did. And if anyone else impied that in the course of responding to you, I missed it.

"The reactions to my questions have sparked something I didn't expect."

Well, you must be new to this business. A lot of us have heard from the Nazi apologists, ad nauseum. And the thing is, they never seem to quit!

"I assure you my "do the math" approach was totally innocent."

That's reassuring. You see, often, when people do things like questioning the Soviet exaggerations about the numbers of Auschwitz dead, it isn't done in the spirit of honest inquiry. Rather, it's employed as a rhetorical question, used to indict the entire factual basis of the systematic identification, detention, deportation, incarceration, and extermination of unwanted populations like the Jews and Gypsies in the territories conquered by the Nazis. And, to someone unwary who does no further research, it appears at first notice that the deniers have a point.

"I have learned from all of this, though.

Now I have another question: why the fervor?"

Well, as I noted previously, deniers of the Nazi programs of systematic genocide are obsessively persistent. Note, for instance, how the very first reply on this topic thread referenced the subject of Jeff's article only briefly, in the course of diverting the discussion with an insinuation that the claim of Nazi genocide was a Jewish fabrication that didn't crop up until the late 1950s.

There are reams of evidence to the contrary that refute "anonymous 6:41 AM's" insinuation, but people would have to do some actual research for themselves in order to realize that.

( It continually mystifies me why people get knocked over by one out-of-context fact or factoid proffered by an on-line polemicists, when it's so easy to simply feed a few relevant terms into a search engine and get a wider spectrum of opinions, at least some of which is likely to be sufficiently well-documented, referenced, and ethically balanced enough in terms of the pursuit of historical objectivity to be considered authoritative. )

"The Lady doth protest too much???"

I think I can make out a rhetorical question there...your point?

3:30 a.m.  
Blogger Pissedoffcabbie said...

I've often accused those who dispell notions of 9/11 complicity as being in the same league as holocaust deniers. It usually stops them in their tracks.

When arguing the folly of the Vietnam War with my father, he would invariably run in a highly agitated state to get his photos from a concentration camp, and shove them under my nose. The sigularity of this trauma made me wonder just what the event had wrought. We would assume that it could never happen again?

http://pissedoffcabbie.blogspot.com/

4:06 a.m.  
Blogger Sounder said...

I think that struggles between communities disguise what are in fact struggles within a community. In the pre-WW context the rising role of the Jewish intellectual was in tension with the Rabbis. The 'chosen' within the secular Jewish mindset may not have included the larger Jewish community. This reads similar to the idea that the elite of any given country may not be the greatest patriots.

7:08 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Josh,

You might notice he doesn't really answer your questions or mine. Plenty of ad hominem aspersions - a certain sign of a very poor argument. He isn't really up with current research. I don't think there is a current defensible Final Solution total to which an historian will commit. No comment on the incredible gas chambers. Plus I noticed this little "historical judgment":

"Argue over the provability of the nuts and bolts of the methods and causes of death all you want, but it appears plain enough to me that all of those railroad trips were intended as one-way tickets."

Don't worry about the lack of physical, photographic, documentary evidence. Just believe the utterly fantastic "eyewitness" stories - none of whom saw any gassings or can credibly describe the buildings. Your math exercise is just the start of its unbelievability.

I actually used to be a believer, even a specialist, in this subject until the absurd weaknesses of the whole tale became apparent. As for being obsessive, it isn't revisionists who are ramming this nonsense into children's heads and opening "museums" daily, plus a new compulsory remembrance day.

Whom does the Lie serve? Jewish compensation claimants; Israel; the rotten imperialist gang who won WW2 and who needed this lie to be able to present themselves as somehow better than the Nazis and to transform their mass murder of German and Japanese civilians into the "good war" we all have to believe in. Rank heresy. Proud of it.

7:16 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One Jewish writer:

"The Holocaust has proven to be an indispensable ideological weapon. Through its deployment, one of the world's most formidable military powers (Israel), with a horrendous human rights record, has cast itself as a "victim" state, and the most successful ethnic group in the United States has likewise acquired victim status. Considerable dividends accrue from this specious victimhood-in particular, immunity to criticism, however justified." (Norman Finklestein, "The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering", Verso, 2000).

8:40 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, were there or were there not actual "gas ovens" found after the war(capable of killing millions)? Why is it always called "The Holocaust" as if there weren't other "holocausts" throughout history, ie the Armenian holocaust or the Stalinist holocaust? How do the Zionists and the rebuilding of the temple play into the overall fascist NWO we see forming? Since they have been lying and deceiving people all along about everything else, including the 1969 "moon landing", why believe just because they said so? I guess you could call me a "moon landing denier".

12:36 p.m.  
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2:50 a.m.  

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